Conversation with Amber Kelly
A conversation with Amber Kelly about body wisdom, relationships, and vulnerability.
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[00:00:00] Amber: My work is centered around reconnecting or helping people reconnect with their body. Yeah. So much of our lives as masculine and feminines are lived in our heads because we're constantly having to analyze and decide and intake.
[00:00:16] impulse and information and all the things and sort and filter and all the things. Yeah. So we lose connection with that body wisdom, like that gut knowledge and gut instinct. And my work centers around bringing that back online and most of the time that requires some form of somatic emotional release because before that kind of juice can start flowing, usually a lot of stuff has to be removed.
[00:00:50] Through through adolescence and young adulthood and even childhood, early childhood too. We put psychic blocks wherever , like in all of the chakras, whichever one happens to be wherever it happens to be. And. They become such an intrinsic part of us that we they're unconscious.
[00:01:08] We don't even know that they're there until I or someone who does the same type of work that I do tries to guide you into a place in your body that's blocked and you just can't you literally just, it, you can't feel it. So being able to go into those spaces and start becoming curious about it and start pulling at the little threads in it and it's not even necessarily about knowing why it's there, it's just knowing that it is there and how it manifests in the present moment rather than why it was there in the past.
[00:01:41] Expressing tons and tons of gratitude for it because it was. We put it there to protect us and it has done its job beautifully , and we just don't need it anymore. So thanking it, like thanking the blocks, thanking the unconscious places that are hidden from us because our psyche did that for us.
[00:02:05] Yeah. We're just, we just don't need it anymore.
[00:02:07] Michael: I see that's deep
[00:02:08] Amber: healing. Yeah. Working on giving gratitude and love and understanding and the invitation to
[00:02:15] Michael: go . That's so awesome. I love it. Wow. I love it. . Yeah. Oh yeah, no, that, that is certainly a lot of what Maya's exploring as well.
[00:02:28] I would say in many ways I'm very, per personally, a lot of what I've explored is how to get people. almost to do a mental form of yoga. And I wouldn't exactly. Meditation's a really good word for it. Yeah. . But even contemplation, so , using the mind to dis not destroy, but the, to end the mind in a way to to break cycles of the mind that are just repeating and, and essentially getting the mind to look at itself. And when it does it dissolves whatever it's looking at because it sees that it's not real. And that can be very true, I'm sure of the body as well. Seeing the things in the body and observing and being conscious and being like, okay, this is real in the sense that I have manifested it in my physical body.
[00:03:19] , but it's not real in the sense that I still need it. It was appropriate at the time. And now I'm lost in this confusion of continuously keeping that pattern, that physical pattern in me. Yeah. And that's gorgeous that you just got. How do you go about that, if you don't mind me asking?
[00:03:34] Amber: I start if I suspect that the person that I'm working with has some significant blocks you can't come at it straightforward because cuz it'll hide. It'll hide and be like, I don't know I was there and now it's gone. And I'm like, yeah, that makes that tracks because it wants to stay there like it's been there.
[00:03:53] Yeah. Self protecting. My the thing that I, the thing that I really try and have my clients embody is light curiosity. So yes, we are doing this work. Yes, there may be there may be parts of it that feel really heavy. Like it may be like, okay, God oh, like I'm doing trauma work.
[00:04:15] Like it's gonna be a grind and it's gonna be a slog, and it's gonna be all these things. So there, there might already be a story that it has to be hard or or difficult, right? Or heavy. So changing that narrative a little bit and saying no, like we're just gonna go in, we're gonna go say there's a big block around the heart.
[00:04:37] I stardom. I stardom. And I might bring their awareness down to the throat chakra and be okay, we're. , we're here. Like we're feeling it. Does it feel tight? Is there tension? Is there a color? What does it feel like? And then lightly, just like very gently bringing the awareness down to the heart where we've already established that there's a block and being like, about where do you feel like your awareness stops?
[00:05:05] And can you put a color, like what is, what color are you feeling as you get down into this heart space what does it feel like? Do you feel like any pain coming up? And it's just really like curiosity. Because if you put yeah, like I said if you put too much weight on it you're gonna your body's gonna do, its automatic, eject.
[00:05:26] It's gonna push the eject button. So allowing to take time. , allowing it to be full of ease, allowing it to be curiosity rather than this is the assignment I have to do this . , this is the goal. No we're gonna be, we're gonna be with ourselves. We're
[00:05:46] Michael: gonna ease with ourselves. Yeah.
[00:05:49] Yeah. Goals can be the, a trap in itself. , to say that there is a goal
[00:05:54] Amber: I actually just happened to talk to somebody today and he wanted cuz I typically will do a six week coaching package. I find that six week timeframe is really useful and I just I like it the best.
[00:06:07] Like energetically time-wise, the amount of connection there is, the time of setting long-term or I'm sorry. Changing in ways that will stick rather than just come and go. Yeah. And he wanted to do one session and he wanted to do like some somatic healing. And there's benefit to that but really I was like, no.
[00:06:31] Yeah. I turned them down because I was like this, when, if you put so much pressure on yourself and your psyche, like you're gonna push, you can push so hard that your mind is gonna go, Nope. And we disassociate or we we might dig and then it goes sideways and it comes out at a different way than we intended and Right.
[00:06:55] So I'm like, I I don't like that pressure doesn't feel good in my body. and I'm pretty clear , so I'm like, I can almost guarantee you it's not gonna feel good in your buddy. So .
[00:07:07] Michael: Yeah, absolutely. Oh my goodness. So yeah, that can be so counterintuitive to actually approach. Cuz because what it's really fascinating.
[00:07:19] I see so many parallels between what we're, what we do. Obviously I'm not doing it as actively as you are, but what I know I want to do and what you do as a practice because it really amounts to simplifying and returning back to a natural state. And like you said allowing is such a key word.
[00:07:44] Yeah. , and when the second you think this is gonna be hard or painful, or anything like that. Yeah. You're you're setting yourself up for that. You're telling story experience, possibly. Yeah. Yeah. And yeah, really fascinating. Thank you for sharing that. Of course. Um, Of course.
[00:07:59] Is there, do you wanna say anything specific if I post this on my podcast, like to people who want to get in touch with you or
[00:08:07] Amber: I'm on Facebook like a promo. . Yeah. most active on Facebook right now. . I'm fairly good at social media. I honestly don't have a website right now. I started to create one and it made me want to pull my fingernails off.
[00:08:22] So my eventual goal is to have somebody do that for me. . Okay. I'm putting that out in the universe, but, oh on Facebook.
[00:08:32] Michael: Maybe I could help you.
[00:08:34] Amber: Yeah, I would love that.
[00:08:36] I've pretty much just been using social media, Facebook mostly. Instagram is probably my number two, but growing an audience and trying to reach people who are finding themselves in this place of.
[00:08:52] within their sex, sexual and intimate life. They are they're finding themselves in a place of, there is something more, I don't know that I know what it is or maybe I have a clue of what it is. But I know I don't have the wherewithal to fully explore and these are places that I may have been carrying for years and years, and my whole body is like a no to exploring that
[00:09:22] And that's where I come in, where I am a little bit of a hand holder sometimes of, yeah, we're going, we're gonna take a look at this and we're gonna see. And most often the big scary monster is not as big and as scary as they seem. It's just, it's
[00:09:40] Michael: shadow play. And yeah. Yeah. If anything, it's a fun monster, Yeah. .
[00:09:45] Amber: That's even better when they become fun monsters, .
[00:09:47] Michael: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I can relate to that a ton because I work at in the and , I gotta say this has happened throughout my life, but being in this with hundreds and hundreds of people around me, of getting to know my personality so many people have come up to me for relationship advice, and very often it, it is sexual in nature that is what they're struggling with. And I, yeah, I've done a lot to guide them, but, in, in an you don't have much time. , all I do is I just give them my card and I say, if you want , go for it.
[00:10:25] Yeah. It's, know, that's it's really fun work. .
[00:10:28] Amber: It's something that I think people especially I think younger people think that they can compartmentalize their sexual life and just keep it as its own little entity. And they can be a little cavalier about it. And then as you age, you start to realize oh, this kind of has its tentacles out in a lot of different places in my life.
[00:10:51] My sexual vitality may be tied to the way I show up at work, or my either sexual fulfillment or sexual frustration affects how I show up with my kids or it, or my friends or on social media. Like my relational satisfaction affects everything and sex is often a big part of that.
[00:11:13] And there's becomes this it, to me it's a beautiful moment where somebody's something's gotta give something's not quite right. And I don't, again I don't know what it is and I don't know where to go with it, but to me, a lot of people find their way to me or someone like me in that moment.
[00:11:29] And it's such a beautiful, fertile place because it's babe, the sky's the limit. What do you want, We can literally create Yeah. Anything. And one of, one of my personal mantras is that adults can talk about anything. Yeah. And so I often have my clients they'll qualify something, but they're about to say this is gonna sound weird.
[00:11:53] Just seems this feels silly to say, and I'm like, you cannot weird me. Like you cannot help with
[00:11:59] Michael: me. Oh my goodness.
[00:12:01] Amber: Oh my goodness. I'm never gonna laugh at you. I'm never gonna tell you're silly. Like you can't do it. And I love that you qualify it because that te that clues me in that this is a vulnerable little bit of information that you're gonna give me.
[00:12:13] So I thank you for that .
[00:12:15] Michael: Yeah. Yeah. I get I don't wanna offend you a lot. Yeah. . And then I always say I, I love South Park. That's like my way of telling everybody, there's no point where you can offend me.
[00:12:28] Amber: My, my capacity for offense is , astronomical .
[00:12:32] Michael: It's just not there. You can't, yeah. A lot of times I actually tell them like there's nothing to offend.
[00:12:37] There's no one here to offend , so can't do it. . my goodness. So fun. What a gift to, to be given, to have somebody come to you in that moment. And I gotta say, those are the gifts I'm looking for. I'm looking around trying to find somebody who wants help with the monkey mind, especially the hyper intellectuals who I kind of wanna show them that their intellect is an absolute gift and it's beautiful and you can use it for wonderful things, but yeah, you can totally torture yourself with it, Uhhuh, , uhhuh, , and and show them how they can start to accept the limits of the intellect and get to that point.
[00:13:19] Amber: So yeah that's me. I'm very much I lived probably the first 31 years of my life in my masculine, cuz we all have our internal feminine and our internal masculine and. . Most of the time, most of the time before we're like 10 years old, we are trained on which one is more acceptable.
[00:13:41] And we suppress the other one. So I was raised with three older brothers, and I was very much in my masculine, like throughout my childhood, throughout my adolescence. And if you were to look at me, you wouldn't know that. But internally, heart, mind, everything, it was straight up masculine, very very penetrative to people.
[00:14:01] Very goal oriented, very accomplishment oriented. Very
[00:14:05] Michael: could I interject? Yeah. You said very penetrative toward people, right? Yes. Now, what that feels like that has a lot of deep meaning. , what I, what do you mean by that? , is that an approach like aggression?
[00:14:19] Amber: In the stage of development that I was in, like in adolescence, it was that I was very pointed in my conversation.
[00:14:26] Okay. I would be very assertive. Ah, yeah. And if I felt like I had I was very, I was really smart and I could articulate well and so I would come in really hot with the big words then the Yeah. Psychological observations and things. And I would I would sometimes use that as a way to put people back on their heels.
[00:14:51] Yeah. I often felt I was raised in a really conservative religion and it often translated into being very judgemental. , like I would quickly gather as much information as I felt like I needed about a person and draw a conclusion and then I'm out. Yeah. And so it was very like analytical and things like that.
[00:15:13] And I suppressed my feminine side. And in so doing the I was married for 15 years and my ex-husband was very much in his feminine because he polarized with me and I was in my masculine. So of course I'm gonna attract a man and his feminine. Yeah. So as I started learning about my habits and the way that I showed up in the world and starting to bring my feminine back online I learned how to keep that internal balance a little bit more.
[00:15:42] Yeah. And I prefer now to be in my feminine as a matter of course, but my masculine is right there. when and if I need it. Yeah. And really I utilize both in my coaching because my feminine can come in and be very and set the space like garner trust and allow people to be vulnerable and allow myself to be vulnerable.
[00:16:07] But my masculine definitely holds the container and brings in that intellectual side. But before I brought my feminine online to return to your point I was very much run by my analytical, like intellect mind. Yeah. Wow. And I still fall into it sometimes. Yeah.
[00:16:26] Michael: Yeah.
[00:16:26] Absolutely. It's always an ebb and flow. It's a dynamic Yeah. Thing that's happening all the time.
[00:16:32] Amber: Yeah. But you, yeah, learning to use it as a tool rather than as a crutch.
[00:16:36] Michael: Yeah. . Absolutely. I think I, I probably have been very feminine. I don't know though. It's been an interesting ride for me cuz I, I went to high school, two different high schools that were Arts High School and Uhhuh
[00:16:50] So I was surrounded by kids who felt very comfortable being openly bisexual and , feminine and whatever you want to be kind of situation. And it was really interesting cuz I knew in that environment that I was free to be whatever I wanted to be, which was awesome. But I also knew I was very heterosexual.
[00:17:12] I would describe myself as like Heteroflexible because I've explored that other thing just because it was so ex, it was allowed. And so it was interesting. And now in my development or in how I, I carry myself, a lot of people think I'm. gay, or, they see me as being a really feminine person, but then when the moment is right, I definitely hit 'em hard with a masculine side
[00:17:39] , that, that kind of surprises them. But yeah, it's been, it's really, I'm very fortunate that I haven't had those hangups that a lot of, especially in high school, you're vulnerable at that point. Yeah. To a peer pressure and anything that's around you and that kind of becomes your future, how you might think it's right to conduct yourself.
[00:17:59] As an adult. And so I would see so many men around me being so aggressive and territorial and homophobic, like scared of their own sexuality kind of things and all kinds of stuff like that. And I, it, so I had to learn the bad side of that just by observing. World . Yeah. Yeah. I had to be like, what is this thing where guys are insecure?
[00:18:24] You
[00:18:24] Amber: guys are like suppressing your sexuality over here. Since when ,
[00:18:28] Michael: right? Yeah. I remember so many times walking up to a bunch of guys who were like talking about their penis size uh, and interjecting myself and saying, I've got the, I bet I've got the smallest penis here. And just telling everybody that just to see if I could make everybody move more comfortable or lighten up the mood a little
[00:18:48] But I don't wanna keep you up too late cuz I can see you're tired and I can also see your mama.
[00:18:54] Amber: It's, it, it's really strange and I need to do more research on this because I yawn when I'm nervous. Like it's a nervous tick.
[00:19:01] Michael: Really?
[00:19:02] Amber: Yeah. No way. I know. And it's horrifying because if I cat behind you, huh?
[00:19:09] Michael: I think that cat just screen popped into Yeah.
[00:19:14] Amber: a little photo bomb. If if I'm on like a first date or something and I'm nervous, yeah. I'll start yawning. Wow. And what do you do? What do you, how do you interpret somebody yawning in your presence? They're bored, right? I'm not
[00:19:27] Michael: bored. . I'm so sorry.
[00:19:28] Yeah. Oh, okay. No, it's good to know. Thank you for telling me nothing to be sorry for. I apologize. I probably should have lived with that . No it's good that I asked. And yeah I think mine is licking my lip a lot and I need Chapstick nearby on a date cuz it'll get super dry. . Like a, Like a lizard?
[00:19:47] Yeah. Oh, I guess so. . Yeah. Nothing to be nervous about with me. I'm just a normal dude who is just super excited about. Waking people up and it, I've had some really great experiences with people at that's been quite a trip because, a lot of things you hear about on the news.
[00:20:04] I don't know if you've been aware of, the reports about what's going on there. Yeah, it is. I won't speak to it because of contracts that I've signed, , but I will say that there's some great journalism out there. I actually majored in journalism. , that was my uh, bachelor's and that has really served me to be super conscious in that area and inform other people around me about what's going on.
[00:20:31] . Cause I'm one of the few people who has a bachelor's degree who's working in this kind of level with people who are packing boxes and owing items and all this crazy stuff, and. and it's beautiful to be able to be in their presence and be able to if they're in a moment where they're like, I feel frustrated, or, some, I've seen tons of people just falling apart crying because of how they feel or what they're undergoing some kind of psychological pressure. Yes. And I just feel like you talk about the fertile soil and the gift that people come to you with. There are those special moments where I can just see a glimpse of vulnerability, a glimpse of seeking.
[00:21:16] And I've been gifted with such beautiful moments to be able to tell them like, I'm here, I'm hearing you. That's the one of the most wonderful things and the easiest thing you can give somebody sometimes that helps 'em grow and evolve in and of itself just to witness. . Yeah. And then in other cases, they're actually seeking advice or feedback or, in a lot of cases they're just, they're seeking themselves and I'm just being like, you're over there, you're
[00:21:46] Amber: This is you Maybe turn your eyeballs that way. ? Yeah. I think it's beautiful, especially in the realm that I work in and in sexuality and intimacy. The places that end up needing to be explored, especially as you get down into the layers, these are places that have existed in shadow since childhood or since adolescence.
[00:22:07] So like 30, 40, 50 years sometimes. Yeah. And it's and I've observed and I remember feeling this same way. . But I've observed in my clients that, that they will get if they feel an emotion coming up, they'll get really cagey and they'll be like, oh and they'll try and breathe it down and they'll try and take, or breathe it up and just try and like constrict around it.
[00:22:31] And I'm like, no, that's not what we do. That's not what we do anymore. Yeah. That's not what we do anymore. And I just had a client tonight tell me that he was in a situation where he was like, I had to fight back tears five times. And I was like, why on earth? Why on earth? And it was in a place that his emotion would have been so powerful.
[00:22:56] Like his true, authentic emotion would've been so powerful. And I'm like, why on earth did you withhold that gift? the gift of your authentic, sincere. Empathy and emotion. Don't ever hold that back. Don't hold it back. It's certainly not with me. Yeah. But with anyone. And like those moments are gift.
[00:23:19] Michael: Yeah. And is this in his life, in a context in his life or during a session?
[00:23:24] Amber: Nope. It was outside of the session. Yeah. And I think that's partly, but he, in and of himself, he has a hard time allowing his emotions to flow. And he has such a love for children that I was like, that emotion that you're feeling coming up in you is your inner child.
[00:23:44] And would you tell that inner child to be quiet or to stop crying or to not show emotion? Like of course you wouldn't, you would allow them to emote. And I'm like, allow yourself to emote. These are deep. , this is deep work that you do. And and it and as you're working with becoming more trustworthy with yourself.
[00:24:11] Cause eventually the desire is to come to such such like deep trust in yourself that you can have any emotion and you can hold it like you can hold yourself. But when you haven't practiced ever, like that's another one of the things that I try and provide is I will hold the space like as you start to get your sea legs with all these emotions that you haven't allowed yourself to feel like, trust me.
[00:24:38] Yeah. Like I'm right here. Like I'm here with you and it's gonna be weird and it's gonna might get ugly. . You might have not and you might have tears. And we're okay. We're okay. .
[00:24:48] Michael: Yeah. Wow. Oh man, that's, that is a gift. , being able to share those moments with people very
[00:24:57] Amber: especially I find for men to be able to trust the feminine, to hold them in their emotion that's a huge deal.
[00:25:05] They don't, they do not get to experience that very often.
[00:25:09] Michael: Absolutely. Yeah. Because we've been taught a lot of things, even, with my wonderful upbringing. I certainly knew in adulthood this kind of unwritten rule that men aren't supposed to cry. . And then I heard a teacher not too long ago her name's Kim and she has a website called Are You Awakening?
[00:25:30] She's a friend of Maya's as well. Okay. And she said she wrote a post about how. , it's actually one of the sexiest thing to women to see a man cry. Is that true? Is yeah. Do you feel that way? ? It's OK if you don't. Of course.
[00:25:49] Amber: It really depends on the woman. And how well acquainted or how do I wanna say that?
[00:25:56] If the feminine being is deeply rooted in her own divine feminine embodiment, she can hold her own boundaries and hold her seat with whatever emotion the masculine can throw. And vice versa, right? But men crying.
[00:26:18] Men crying to me is often a lot more p palatable to the feminine. Where I have seen it really run, of course is men when they feel weak, overwhelmed, and angry. . So if their if their emotion, whatever they're dealing with is coming up as they're overwhelmed and maybe they're in like a failure loop.
[00:26:42] Michael: It's like an insecurity thing. Correct.
[00:26:45] Amber: Yeah. Often men experience the feminine as collapsing in the face of that. And then the other one, probably the biggest one is if a man has rage coming up and ra rage and anger or secondary emotion, , they're covering up something else. That's that at that moment is too vulnerable to feel right.
[00:27:03] And many times the feminine will collapse in the face of that just due, due to her own history. And of course, like due to her own, we have a thousand chemistry, hundred thousand years of DNA n memory that men's righteous is dangerous, right? But in intimate relationship, when we have really good boundaries and safety measures in place, and the feminine is like deeply rooted in her divine feminine and has really good emotional boundaries, allowing a man to express rage in a way that is controlled.
[00:27:41] Like he's not gonna, he's not gonna destroy the furniture. Like we're not punching holes and walls. We're not going out and hitting anybody. Like none of that is gonna happen. , but we're going to use specific like tantric, somatic emotional release tools, which I teach. But we're gonna use these tools and we're gonna be in a protected environment.
[00:28:01] And if we have to have a third person, we will. But allowing the masculine to fully feel and express that and have him be able to look at his woman and she's not collapsing in the face of that ugh. Like it provides so much freedom. And like a break from the shame. Yeah. And a break from the fear like this cuz there's such an intrinsic fear, like this thing that I'm feeling in me is dangerous.
[00:28:29] I am dangerous. Yeah. And if I express this, everyone around me is gonna be afraid and therefore I will be abandoned. Yeah. So like allowing that. to be able to have a container where it can flow and be expressed. It's like I can't even describe the change I've seen in men that are able to be held by the feminine in that realm.
[00:29:00] It's amazing, like magic.
[00:29:06] Michael: I can't, I know exactly what you're talking about. I know. Exact because I had a revolutionary experience myself when I and so much of what you're talking about really reminds me of B D S M. Yeah. It a proper B D S M. Because you mentioned the boundaries.
[00:29:23] and the capacity to really handle what's happening on both parties, parts and developments has been consensual . Oh, yeah. And consent is like not an easy thing. Like a lot of people like you, I think you might have used the word cavalier for younger people. And that's certainly something that I think is not nearly as a nuanced, it's it feels like it's not fully explored in the nuance of what consent means all the time.
[00:29:58] , because I think there are cases where some people actually, you know, even though they might be 18 years old or whatever, they aren't even capable of consenting yet. Yeah. And they almost need help a as you say, developing their own boundaries. Which is really coming into adulthood. And I think I came into that probably around 36
[00:30:29] So I feel like I've been able to give full consent by age 36. And that's not to say that I didn't have the ability to consent well before that. I did but it really shocked me to learn what boundaries are at 36 to really see how much we get lost in what you might term as.
[00:30:51] This can be a problematic turn and almost sound conspiratorial, but I don't mean it that way. And that's
[00:30:58] Amber: qualifying your statement for me, .
[00:31:01] Michael: Yeah. I am because in order to make sure it's not misinterpreted, More than anything. . I'm just teasing you. Yeah, I totally love it. I love the teasing.
[00:31:10] Please bring it on. , yeah, so I, I feel oh my gosh, I think I lost my train of
[00:31:16] Amber: thought. In, in that realm of, in that realm of consent you don't know what you don't know. So yeah, you can say, yes, I consent to this thing. Like for, using my example of holding space for masculine rage, you can be like, yeah, I, yeah, I totally can handle that.
[00:31:31] And and then you get into it and all of a sudden you have big reaction coming up in your own body and you're no longer really able to hold that space anymore. Yeah. and there has to be. And so instead of sacrificing yourself on the altar of, I'm a badass space holder and I have to do this, like I consented to this, so I must there has to be some sort of protocol right arranged that you can be like I'm to I'm just, I'm not here anymore.
[00:32:04] I'm not with you. I'm not able to hold this space anymore. And being able to pull the energy back and then come at it from a different perspective of maybe you need someone else there for you, right? Or maybe this particular emotional release needs to be done by somebody outside of the intimate relationship, right?
[00:32:26] There's a thousand different ways and methods and. and it's gonna change over time. And we're human. And we're fallible. Yeah, absolutely. So yes, absolutely. We are entering into this deeply this deeply trusting container with somebody. And we are only human.
[00:32:47] Michael: Yeah. And we move, we fly.
[00:32:49] The biggest thing I've learned from being in a relationship with Maya is how much, how important it is to be able to embrace change and to see how things flow and just allow and flow with it. Because I'm very like I wouldn't say said in my ways, but to some degree I guess what I would say is I know what I want and I've had a lot of experience, so I'm just to that extent. A lot of times people don't take me to places that I haven't gone where I'm like, oh, I don't know what to do here and I don't know how I feel about this. Yeah. Very often it's more I know exactly how I feel about this. This is awesome. . And so yeah, I, that's very important to have like consent be continual.
[00:33:33] In fact, one of my favorite things to teach and so important is about Dom Drop and SubD drop within the context of B D S M. When people actually lose their ability to consent in many ways because they're just, all of a sudden they're like out of it and they're not actively consciously there.
[00:33:55] And so having the ability to just check in with 'em and make sure is everything still cool? I think one of my favorite things to do is just Hold on to the other person's wrist and then they hold onto your wrist and then you squeeze them like twice or something and then they'll squeeze you back if they're wanting you to continue.
[00:34:14] And if the pace of things is right and I love that they're feeling okay. Yeah. Cuz then if they don't squeeze back
[00:34:19] Amber: a little more what? A little bit more somatic rather than Yeah. Than
[00:34:25] Michael: intellect. Exactly. Yeah. Cuz I mean there are moments when there is no intellect . Yep. Yeah.
[00:34:32] Amber: You're higher executive functioning.
[00:34:34] Any, anytime I'm entering in net into any sort of container like that there's the safe word. And there's also a safe gesture. If my words are gone, if my words are gone, I need you to watch for, it's a ta a double tap. Like if my words are gone, I will double tap you.
[00:34:49] And that means we need to stop. Respecting that. Yeah. Sometimes your words go offline in those places. And I've actually used quite a few B D S M safety measures, yeah, as I've worked in my own underworld, I call it. Yeah, as I'm like investigating, the way I phrase it is if I come, if I'm like, being curious about where I'm at and how I'm interacting with somebody and I come across an unyielding, no and this, they usually come up pretty organically.
[00:35:23] And if it's like a nope, like that's not gonna happen, I'm like, oh, okay. Here's something that I obviously haven't explored and I like my psyche is like hard, no. and we're gonna explore that a little bit. And, but in order to do that and not cuz it's usually like centered or like orbiting around some sort of trigger, right?
[00:35:46] Like we, that's how you discover your triggers is when they're a hard no, right?
[00:35:50] Michael: Oh yeah, that's
[00:35:50] Amber: a good point. So if it's orbiting around a trigger and I can be a little bit curious about it and I can even set up an exercise where we're gonna explore this little trigger thing, like whatever I'm feeling, whatever clue I have right now, we're gonna start exploring that with the intent to be curious about it and to rewrite whatever story I'm telling myself about it.
[00:36:17] So I have a really solid story about this and I don't think it necessarily needs to be true. Like it doesn't need to be. the hardcore truth. . Yeah. So I wanna explore and I wanna get read up close enough to it to where I can tell a new story, but I'm not re-triggering myself. Gotcha. And that B D S M aspect of safe words of the gestures or whatever it happens to be, of having somebody that can be in tune with your body to make sure that you haven't gone offline.
[00:36:48] That's all a really important part of that mental B D S M, even if you're not doing anything physical. When you're just exploring those kind of like deep underworld, psych e bits. .
[00:36:59] Michael: Yeah. Oh my gosh. So fun. If you ever wanna I don't know, you've probably created lists of like kinks and things and sort.
[00:37:10] Forms or something for people to fill out to actually communicate their interests and their aversions. Have you ever done anything like that?
[00:37:21] Amber: No. I don't work only with kink. I just find that meaning it's not a tool that I use all that often. Like I'm not a dom I like a dominatrix or anything like that.
[00:37:32] I find the premise of it to be extremely useful for people to frame how we're going to explore their like the shadow parts of their sex intimate life. Cuz usually B D S M, when you're exploring bds m it's something that your internal culture tells you. wrong in some ways. Yeah. . And so there's, there, that's part of the arousal is you're pushing into something that your culture says is wrong, whether that's being submissive or dominant or getting flogged or being tied up or whatever it happens to be.
[00:38:07] , you can take that whole frame of reference and put it over into this place of how you approach your sex and intimate life. Even to the extent of if you have deeply held beliefs of I can't trust the feminine. Okay, how can we come up with a B D S M esque, even, without any of the physical stuff.
[00:38:32] How can we come up with an exercise or a scene or something that we can explore that and figure out? , figure out how to change the story of that. Like for example being spanked means I'm being demeaned. If I'm spanked, it means I'm being treated like a child. Versus when I'm spanked, I get a whole lot of pleasure,
[00:38:55] So like these two things, it's the same action. , but it's about the story that we tell around it. And so exploring and being curious and having people around you that can help you change a story around a trigger it's really delicate work. Yeah. But holy smokes it opens up your whole existence when you work both muscles and
[00:39:16] Michael: figure it out.
[00:39:18] Yeah. Oh my God. Yes. . Yeah. Ooh, I know what you're talking about. Yeah. . Ooh. Oh yeah. I, so I think it was around I don't know exactly the age, but Dang. Yeah. I remember the first time I ever explored B D S M in a real way. And I'd like always been pretty interested in things on the fringe and experimentation and stuff like that.
[00:39:42] But the first time I had an experience of exploring domination with somebody being a dominance, it was so empowering cuz I, I had always felt, so I think I'd navigated my life so Submissively. . So this was like a way for me to learn, to actually be to ask for what I want and to communicate that and to be clear with people.
[00:40:07] And it, it is part of a boundary as well. Being able to actually explore a part of yourself that you never get to explore because you feel culturally entrapped by what you've grown up with. Uhhuh, . And and you, you said ever since we're children, how this just develops, but even deeper.
[00:40:27] You, you also mentioned genetics and how like deep this goes, it's beautiful. Yeah. Have you ever heard of a book called Gene Keys? Yes. Yeah. Oh my gosh. Did you read it?
[00:40:41] Amber: I haven't read it yet, but I it's in my sphere. .
[00:40:44] Michael: It's insane. It's insane. It, you would probably like it a lot. Cuz it, it really is in your sphere for sure.
[00:40:51] Yeah. Yeah, so I just remember going through that experience and it being profound and changing me in a lot of ways cuz it, it taught me how much . I think in a lot of ways it's like an opportunity to play again. And feel like you're not just a boring adult all the time.
[00:41:08] And . Yeah. Cause cuz we do get put in that, role
[00:41:11] Amber: at times in our lives. There's there's a practice that I did and I follow this I follow a coach that works. He's, he lives over in Maine and a warning to your audience that this ends up being in there. He is incredibly unpolitically.
[00:41:27] Correct. So if you have sensitive ears, don't go talk to him. Oh
[00:41:32] Michael: yeah. I don't and audience, I don't have much of an audience, okay. .
[00:41:38] Amber: So he , he can be such an asshole. , , and I love him so much because he is unafraid to really tell you how he feels, and he is completely open to you, completely rejecting how he feels or how he interprets how you're being.
[00:41:56] But one of the tenants of or one of the practices that I've learned from him is I call it like a superpower practice. So you think about your history, your behavior, things like that. And you figure out what your superpower is. What is the big thing that you use to make your existence and your existence better and your success more probable.
[00:42:18] And how, what's the thing that you use? Is it your intellect? Like I, I'm very much in my brain and I analyze everything, and then I filter it and I act. , is it something like perfectionism? Is it oh, I use my sexuality to get what I want. So you identify that thing and then you figure out what the 180 is of it, which is a bit more complicated than it sounds, you think it would be simple.
[00:42:42] But the 180 is often in shadow. But when you can figure out what that 180 is that's where your actual superpower lies. Like for you, in that example you just gave me, like you, you grew up with, you grew up in a more of a submissive energy. Like submissive, feminine kind of energy.
[00:43:04] Michael: yeah. Followed my mom as a model a lot. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:43:07] Amber: Like you're going with the flow, like you're easy to please. You're not demanding, like you're not gonna rock the boat. And that's how you survive. That has led you to a pretty easy life. Like every, people like being around you because you're benign, like you're easy to be around.
[00:43:28] Whereas when you turned whatever and started exploring some B D S M, you explored the 180 of that, which is you're dominant. Like you, you discovered that. Oh I like to tell people what to do, . Oh, I like to be trusted to hold this container. Oh. Like I know how to bring a lot of pleasure to people. And so then you discover like your actual superpower where.
[00:43:58] you are this really beautiful, empathic, sincere, dominant where you are safe to be around. You're safe for that person. And you are trustworthy in that role because it requires so much trust. And so you have this, you have everything, this kind of superpower that is actually the opposite of the superpower you thought you had for a lot of your life.
[00:44:23] Michael: yeah. People pleasing, which is really more of a weakness. Oh
[00:44:26] Amber: yeah. Yeah. People pleasing. That's a huge one.
[00:44:31] Michael: Yeah. So many people have it. It's a mixed in with martyrdom. Uhhuh, . Yeah.
[00:44:38] Amber: Yeah. We wanna be liked we're herd animals. Yeah. We wanna be, we want our belonging. Yeah.
[00:44:45] Michael: Wow. That's a really great way to put it.
[00:44:47] I love it. Thank you for your
[00:44:50] Amber: words. I love that practice. I'm sorry.
[00:44:53] Michael: Thank you for your words. Of course. It's really beautiful to hear a reflection of some of the things that I'm interested in and to Yeah, talk with somebody who's also interested in those things and
[00:45:03] Amber: very interested . Yeah,
[00:45:05] Michael: it's beautiful.
[00:45:06] Thanks. Yeah, it, I don't know if we've gone over time. I do you still have a little more time or how you doing? I have five more minutes or so. Okay, cool. Yeah, so what else or are
[00:45:18] Amber: we in now? It's up to you. You don't have to fill five minutes, .
[00:45:21] Michael: Yeah, I don't feel pressured in any way. But yeah, I'd love the time if if you have it.
[00:45:26] Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. The reason I mentioned the. and the things like that you might wanna communicate about what are your interests and what are your aversions, which fascinating to hear you talk about the aversions being the place where you might discover healing. It reminds me of a book title I've heard, which I haven't read, but I really understand deeply what this book title means, which is I think it's something like the,
[00:45:59] I guess the hurdle or the wherever the struggle is, wherever the resistance is and things feel very like there's pushback. That's where success is. That's where you're gonna find, oh, the obstacle is. Yes. Wow. You did it. Yes. .
[00:46:17] Amber: Yeah. That's a thank you. That's a very famous stoicism book that's pretty much like the stoicism Bible.
[00:46:24] Oh, okay. Yes. Yeah. Very much. And I it is yes. I strongly suggest reading it. Cool. Stoicism actually helped me a lot as I cuz I, I, in my previous life I was very codependent. And stoicism was a really good pillar for me to orient around as I was deconstructing my codependency.
[00:46:46] I wouldn't say that I'm a stoic, although I still borrow a lot of the practices from it, but , it was almost a way for me to polarize against codependency into stoicism, so then I could like, swing that pendulum really hard. . Yeah. And then allow it to swing back and settle in the middle. But yeah, the obstacle is a way, a hundred percent.
[00:47:08] I recommend reading it.
[00:47:09] Michael: Okay, cool. Yeah, that title just k it keeps returning to me even though I obviously couldn't remember it, but that's why I have you, you're That's fine right
[00:47:19] Amber: here. . Yeah. As soon as you start saying it, I was like, I think it's out .
[00:47:22] Michael: Yeah so the reason I mentioned that list of fetishes and whatnot is because if you'd ever like me to send you that document, I worked like months and months on creating this long document full of fetishes and things.
[00:47:36] , which you're welcome to have, if you'd like to provide it to any of your clients or anything like that. Yes. You Okay, cool. I'll remember to send it after this. . Okay. Are you nervous again? Is that why you're yawning? ? ,
[00:47:47] Amber: I've been like, I'm trying to like, take deeper breaths cuz I think that's what happens physiologically is I start right.
[00:47:53] I don't breathe quite as deeply as I usually do. Yeah. And so then my body's we need more oxygen, so let's yawn a bunch of times. And I'm like, no. Okay. I see. So I've been trying to breathe a little bit deeper. .
[00:48:05] Michael: That's a good, that's a good habit. Yeah. I do breath work as well. That's one of my favorite things to do to, if somebody has a real struggle with quieting their mind.
[00:48:15] Doing a round of breath work can be really helpful to just yeah. Calm 'em down a little bit. Get that nervous system to relax and start to, I don't know, I guess let go. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Get in, get a little bit more into that rest state. Yeah.
[00:48:32] Amber: Using the breath. . It's a really potent like primal tool to use to bring awareness down into the body.
[00:48:40] Like you can literally just breathe your awareness down. And then it helps a lot to it, yeah, it helps a lot to use that as a method if you're, if you don't have quite a very good handle on your awareness as an energetic thing. Yeah. It can be enigmatic, but using the breath is very, yeah.
[00:49:00] It's a beautiful segue into getting a little bit more body awareness. Gotcha.
[00:49:05] Michael: You mentioned somatics. And a lot of people in your realm people who do body work and Maya have mentioned , do you ever explore dance and an intersection between dance and somatics, or is that like foreign to you?
[00:49:23] Amber: No. I, no, it's not foreign to me. Somatic for me, the somatic healing that I do typically ends up me. So I guess a little closer to reiki. Yeah. Although it's not really that either. Dance I bring a lot to my group facilitating because it's such a primal bonding experience.
[00:49:45] When you are able to dance together and move your body with other people and have everybody like joining in it, it automatically creates like this really deep primal bond. . So at I've been to retreats and things where dancing happened at least once a day, if not two or three times as a complete group because again like we're, we are tribal creatures and there's a reason that dance is such an intrinsic part of, often an intrinsic part of tribal life is that there's bonding that happens, so you might as well use that.
[00:50:28] For me individually, dance has become a and I use the term dancing lightly. It's basically just moving my body in whatever way my body wants to move. And that might be like rolling around on the ground. That might be. Ri more of like a arriving movement. Oftentimes that's how I move really dense emotion.
[00:50:53] Sh like shaking your body is a really good quick way to, to dissipate some really intense emotion. And a lot of that can be like interwoven into dance. Okay. And you
[00:51:05] Michael: said writhing?
[00:51:08] Amber: Yeah, that how do I if you imagine if you imagine a snake and he like gets thumped on the head or stepped on his tail and they just curl into a little ball and just ride around.
[00:51:19] Ride around .
[00:51:19] Michael: Yeah.
[00:51:20] Amber: Okay. Okay. Like That's how I think it looks. I don't know. I've never actually watched myself do it. I just do it. Wow. I'd love to
[00:51:26] Michael: see.
[00:51:31] Amber: I would have to get really brave if I was to like, put that out on the internet
[00:51:34] Michael: or something. No, no pressure. No pressure.
[00:51:37] Amber: It's usually when I feel really intense d emotion, I re, I just wanna get low to the ground and just I just turn my body and move my body in whatever way it wants to move.
[00:51:50] Wow,
[00:51:50] Michael: okay. That's really cool. Allow it to be weird. Yeah. Oh, for sure. Yeah. I love being weird on the dance floor. It's one of my favorite things because especially I, in many situations I spent a lot of time in Phoenix and gone to dance clubs and obviously those are environments where they're not exactly the most open and all the guys, it like the club environment.
[00:52:15] All the guys are very , what would you say? Frowns on their face, not allowed to have a smile. And all the girls, yeah. And this is a past memory of course, but , maybe they're all having fun now. Maybe they're all doing swing dancing. But Yeah, . But at the time I would do a lot of silly dancing and I remember a lot of people pointing, making fun of me, or maybe it would loosen them up.
[00:52:35] It's so fun to play with your body to create an atmosphere. I actually like dancing at and there were instances where they really discouraged it. They didn't, yeah, it's weird. Like they didn't want me to show like I was having too much fun, since you say it's so great for tribal.
[00:52:55] Yeah. Why don't they do it in offices? Why don't they do it like they should at companies? Yeah. I'm sure they, they do in some cases. .
[00:53:02] Amber: Probably not because you don't necessarily, it would probably be a very unique company that would do that intrinsically. And we work, you also have to be aware that whatever we're assigned to do, we're probably not gonna do it.
[00:53:16] So if there's like a rule like, Hey, at 10 30 we're gonna have , a company-wide dance break, people are gonna be like,
[00:53:22] Michael: Nope. , . Yeah. Yeah. Wow. That's amazing. Like that. People aren't more vulnerable to that. But I understand the blockages for sure. .
[00:53:33] Amber: Yeah. But when you see like there's a reason that flash mobs were such a big thing, right?
[00:53:38] Like being out in public and just seeing people dance and have fun in that way. Like of course you wanna be part of that. There's like a certain, like your body, pulls you towards
[00:53:47] Michael: it. Yeah. I lo I love dancing. . And I really, I, so just to sum up a little bit of my life, I've started my life a large portion of my life, college and afterwards not feeling like I had a soul and just having this sort of belief system that you're a, I'm just a biomechanical mass that thinks I have consciousness, but I'm fooling myself into thinking it.
[00:54:17] So this very agnostic, atheist sort of approach. Yeah. Thinking more agnostic, really very into philosophy classes and exploring that stuff. And then at one point in my life, I just when I met Maya, actually first l s d trip with her and really dancing and letting loose and
[00:54:38] I, I wrote an article on my website, which when you check it out, feel free to check out the article. It's called The Spiritual Skeptic. And it was when I discovered my soul, despite my doubts. And so I just I moved my body in a way that I'd never moved it before in my life. . And it felt like it was the first time I had fully expressed and externalized my inner world.
[00:55:07] And yeah. After that experience and that journey I realized, yeah, I have a soul. .
[00:55:14] Amber: I just wanted to dance. .
[00:55:16] Michael: Yeah. Oh my goodness. What a beautiful discovery. Yeah. To to discover yourself in that way. Yeah. And to come out of that. I see so many people today in prominent media circles, many people who do control the sort of mainstream narrative of the world today who are in that same state and kind of stuck in this very rigid belief that I'm just an animal and there's no consciousness, and consciousness and illusion. Yeah. Thinking and yeah. That re reductionist approach to things. Yeah. Did you ever live in that world or yourself?
[00:55:56] Amber: No. No. I came from a very religious background, so I don't think I've, I don't think I've ever had a point in my life where I didn't know that I was some sort of some flavor of divinity. Yeah. . I've just changed flavors over time. .
[00:56:11] Michael: Yeah. Yeah. And did, was there any disillusionment over time or is it just simply an evolution of understanding?
[00:56:21] Amber: I would say there was disillusionment in the religious paradigm, but as far as or meaning the dogma yeah. But as far as me and myself as a divine creature, no, not really. Yeah.
[00:56:38] Michael: Yeah. The dogma,
[00:56:39] Amber: there was a bit of, there may have been a bit of denial at some points, , and I'm still, I'm, I would say I'm still a student of how deep does my definity go, but no, it's never not, it's never been absent.
[00:56:53] Michael: So you use that word dogma, and that's so applicable to what I was talking about with the material reductionist science view of things that can get dogmatic. And it's so interesting that it isn't seen because of the cultural I'm not sure if you see this, but it's almost like the culture that I tend to witness doesn't even see that, that it's dogma in fact they, there's a view, there's a philosophical view and maybe belief system that this dogmatism towards science.
[00:57:31] And by science western science Yeah. Is actually conscious, yeah. When it's superior in, what'd you say? It's
[00:57:40] Amber: superior.
[00:57:40] Michael: And what a labyrinth to get lost in , as a human. It's quite, it's been quite an adventure for me to be lost in that labyrinth.
[00:57:49] And I would say one of the reasons why I feel qualified to guide people , out of their own mental chatter is cuz I've gotten so damn lost in my own and found my way out somehow. Yeah. In, in, in the depth of a complex maid.
[00:58:05] Amber: Yeah. You should always look for teachers who have done the thing that they're trying to teach.
[00:58:10] Michael: It's been wonderful sharing eye contact with you and sharing just your presence. Thank you so much for sharing your time with me.
[00:58:20] Amber: Of course. Thank you. Till next time.
Note:
Words imperfectly capture truth. What Amber and I say is imperfect by nature, but those words point toward a perfect truth that is beyond the limitations of language or mental comprehension.
Published content continues to evolve and improve over time. First drafts are released, and I welcome any constructive feedback: edits, factual corrections, or content suggestions.
Exact words and identifying characteristics such as pronouns or names are redacted or changed for any writers who have not given me written permission to identify them or use their writing.
